The neighborhoods of Karmiel

The city has developed gradually, according to its master plan: the Founder’s Neighborhood (Mercaz Hayashan)was established during the years 1964 – 1978; the Southern Neighborhood (Dromit) during the years 1970 – 1978; the Western Neighborhood (Ma'aravit) from 1980 – 1983; the Galilee Neighborhood (Galil) was developed during the years 1992 – 1995; Sagi Neighborhood from 1990 – 1993; Givat Ram from 1991 – 1998. Ramat Rabin was established in 1996; Givat Makosh and the Irisim neighborhoods were built during 1984 – 1998. Now ground is being broken for a new neighborhood on Mount Carmi – the Rahavam Neighborhood.

update on rental prices from Sharona Standhill of NBN: 

 
NOTE:  THE FOLLOWING TABLE IS MEANT TO REPLACE FIGURES QUOTED IN THE OLDER TEXT.
 

Older neighborhoods (Dromit, Center, Eshkolot, Maaravit)	Newer neighborhoods (Rabin, Makosh )
2000-2300 NIS	2500 – 2800 NIS	3 rooms
2200-2500 NIS	2800-3200 (if includes garden will be 3200-3500)	4 rooms
Maaravit – 2000-2300	In Makosh – 2000-2300	“Granny apartments”
Purchase
400,000 – 430,000 NIS	600,000 NIS and up	3 rooms
500,000 -520,000 NIS	750,000 NIS and up	4 rooms	Gardens, balconies etc add to the price
1,200,000 NIS and up	1,500,000 NIS and up	Duplex homes (5 rooms)
1,800,000 NIS and up	1,800,000 NIS and up	Private homes (5 rooms and up)

 

Take care,

A map of Karmiel shows 12 named residential neighborhoods:

Hameasdim

Te’ene

Sagi

Megadim

Hadar

Galil

Eshkol

Arava

Irisim

Makosh

Ramat Rabin

Givat Ram

(Also on the map are the “Festival” neighborhood, home to Horowitz High School (currently providing classroom space to the ORT Braude college and no longer operating as a public high school,) swimming pool, tennis courts, soccer pitch, Baruch Venger Musical Conservatory and the municipal amphitheater and the industrial area.)

Of these, only the last 4 are consistently referred to by name.  The remaining Karmiel neighborhoods are more likely to be described geographically, in relation to their direction, i.e., the old center (hamercaz hayashan), the ma’aravit (the western part of the city) or the dromit (the southern end of town.) 

The old center:

This area (Hameasdim neighborhood), built in 1964, is home to a unique building style called the ‘patio.’  

Patios are common wall homes, similar to townhouses, built along quiet, narrow paths.  Each was originally constructed with a walled in garden area, affording a measure of privacy unavailable in housing anywhere else in the city.  Many of these simple units have been expanded into 2 and 3 storey homes.  In addition to patios, the neighborhood has a number of 2 storey duplex type units backing on Karmiel’s ‘forest,’ as well as several 3 storey walk up buildings.  Although some of the buildings may appear a bit rundown, the neighborhood is stable and relatively inexpensive.  Old building standards provided for thicker walls and larger rooms than exist in many new buildings.  The neighborhood is home to 2 synagogues, a yeshiva for boys, a religious school (Moriah) with a significant complement of Ethiopian and Sephardi boys and girls, a mikveh, the office of the Ministry of the Interior, a senior citizens center, a senior citizens hostel, a large park, at least 2 well-kept children’s playgrounds and a branch of kupat holim Clalit.  It is within walking distance of the central post office, the English Speakers’ Club, Bituach Leumi, 2 major banks, a ‘canyon,’ 3 supermarkets, 2 gyms, a swimming pool, tennis courts, the ORT Braude college classrooms located in the former Horowitz High School, the municipal amphitheater, the municipal library, a sports hall, the Histadrut headquarters and the municipal cultural center in addition to the usual small shops and service businesses.  The neighborhood is bounded on 3 sides by Zahal Street and on 1 side by HaGalil, the lower half of which is a commercial street.  A number of 3-4 storey walkups front on HaGalil, as do 2 long ‘rakefet’ (train) buildings. The ‘rakefot’ walkups are constructed of concrete and hold as many 35 or more units with several entries.  Today, a lot of the original apartments are occupied by offices.  They can be found in all the older neighborhoods.  Recently,I viewed a fair sized 3 room (2 bed room) apartment on Rh. Hagalil (Hagalil Street) on the second floor  (no elevator; 34 steps) for nis 2300.

The dromit:

A left turn off of Zahal onto Morad Hagai Street, takes you up a hill past the swimming pool, tennis courts, the football (soccer) pitch and the Baruch Venger Music Conservatory on the right, and the ORT Horowitz high school and the municipal amphitheater on the left (see Festival neighborhood).  This area, known as the dromit, encompasses the Eshkol and Arava neighborhoods. Two streets divide the area, Morad Hagai and Hahavatzelet, roughly into 3 parts.

The area between Morad Hagai and Sderot Nesiei Israel (Eshkol neighborhood) contains 5 kindergartens (ganim), one of which is for Haredi children and one of which serves Ethiopian children.  In addition, there is a clubhouse (moadonit) for developmentally challenged adults, 2 synagogues, 1 of which (on Nativ HaLotus Street) serves the Ethiopian community, a clubhouse serving the Ethiopians, one elementary school and a community center. Most of the housing is high density. The main kupat holim Macabbi clinic, a kupat holim Clalit Emergency Center and Na’amat are located at the Sderot Nesiei Israel end of the neighborhood. There is a “Learning Center” on Hahavatzelet Street.   

The Arava neighborhood (bounded by Hahavatzelet, Morad Hagai and Sderot Nesiei Israel) has one state sponsored synagogue, a fully equipped park & playground, a kindergarten for children from religious families and is home to the Conservative (Masorati) Congregation Kehilat Hakerem.  The Arava neighborhood ends at the Lev Karmiel shopping center which houses a bank, a postal substation and the main kupat holim Clalit clinic.  Most of the housing is duplex or triplex.  There is one street with single family homes.

On the other side of Morad Hagai (left hand side, going up the hill from the ORT Horowitz HS) are several duplex units and well as a number of 8 storey elevator buildings.  A left turn onto HaPrachim Street takes you into a street of mixed housing—single family homes and 3 storey walk ups.  The views from the street and the air flow are exceptional because the street overlooks a large valley (wadi).  The area ends at a hiking and bike path. This area contains 2 synagogues, 4 kindergartens, one of which is set up to serve the religious community, an elementary school and a few small shops.  In recent years, a number of modern orthodox families have moved into all of these neighborhoods as have several haredi families.

A 3^rd floor walk up in an old building (3.5 rooms) recently went for 2300 nis/monthly. This particular apt. did, however, contain major appliances.  I recently viewed a ground floor apartment in an old 8 storey elevator building on Morad Hagai.  It was a 3room (2 bedrooms)flat for rent for nis 2200.

The Irisim:

Continuing up Morad Hagai and turning left onto Sderot Nesiei Israel, you pass an area which includes buildings from the late 1970’s to buildings constructed within the last 10 years.  That section which is closer to the old center of Karmiel includes several multi storey apartment buildings knows as the Irisim.  They represent a style of building similar to that found in many of the older neighborhoods.  The Irisim today is on the edge of a large commercial area called, simply, the ‘midrahov’. Across Morad Hagai is the Lev Karmiel Shopping Center.   A number of orthodox and Haredi families have moved into this area which is home to a state sponsored synagogue, a Haredi synagogue and the Kolel Rav Malka. There are 4 kindergartens, 2 elementary schools, a Haredi elementary school (Amichi), a yeshiva and a sports center.  I am told there is a Temini (Yemenite) synagogue in this area. 

Makosh Neighborhood:

If you continue on Sderot Nesiei Israel, you will come to the turn off to Makosh, a neighborhood which is primarily comprised of single family homes, duplexes and triplexes.  There is an active community center (Matnas) in the neighborhood.  One kindergarten is shown on the map.  The neighborhood is bounded on 3 sides by hiking and bike paths and overlooks a wadi. 

Rentals are rare, but an occasional ‘cottage’ may be found for around nis 3500-4500.

Ramat Rabin:

To the west of  Makosh is the Rabin neighborhood, Karmiel’s newest.  Most of the residents are young, upwardly mobile Israeli families, many of whom are the children of the olim from the FSU who first came to Karmiel 15 years or so ago.  Properties in this area are considered highly desirable and are among the most expensive in the town for non-single family dwellings. Rentals of nis 3500-4000 month are common for a 4 room apartment.  The Amit (modern orthodox) School is located in Rabin, as are a sports hall, an active community center (matnas), 7 kindergartens, 2 synagogues and a mikveh. There is also a small commercial center, a kupat holim Clalit clinic and 2 elementary schools.

I recently viewed an apartment (May, 2010) of approx. 75 m² living space.  Two bedrooms, balcony, 2 toilets, very narrow kitchen (room for skinny table), no separate dining facilities, 2 ordinary bedrooms.  This was in an elevator building and was going for nis 2200 [note the date].  Note:  although the living space (which, btw, includes the balcony), the municipal taxes are based on common areas as well in an apartment building, so the tax bill for this apt. rated the flat at 97 m², which includes not only the balcony, but the halls and stair wells and entry ways.  This is standard practice.  Another flat in the same neighborhood had 3 bedrooms (one of which is the 'safe room' or bomb shelter which is required in all residences constructed these days) and two balconies (merpesot) and rented for nis 2700. The price included one parking spot.

Givat Ram:

Givat Ram is the neighborhood farthest from the main entrance of the city.  A bridge was built from the existing city to this area, thus it has maintained its integrity as a suburb. Originally built to house olim from the FSU, today Givat Ram is a homogeneous area.  Hebrew is the main language, with Russian speakers comprising about 1/3 of the population and veteran Israelis making up most of the balance.  The neighborhood is divided into 2 parts.  The area on the right as you enter the neighborhood is home primarily to families with young children.  The section on the left, somewhat smaller, is populated mostly by families in their 40’s and up.  One synagogue is shown on each side on the map.  The Rakefet elementary school is on the left side.  5 kindergartens are shown.  A kupat holim Clalit clinic is in the newer area.  Nearly all housing is comprised of two-family modular units set on small lots.  Many of the basic units have been improved and have second floors.  There are two large elevator apartment blocks on the left just before you enter the neighborhood.  Cost of rental vary widely, reflecting the difference in types of housing, but nis 3000 should give you a lot of flexibility.

From a lister at gonorthkarmiel@yahoogroups.com

"To the best of my knowledge and recollection, there are two shuls in givat ram and a third under construction.

One is Ashkenazi under the direction of Rabbi Schwartz.  They daven with nusach achid which in the US is also known as nusach sephard.

The second shul is sepharadi or mizrachi.  I do not know much about it or who the rav is.

As far as the Ashkenazi shul goes, there are about 15 or so chareidi families and another 25 or 30 non chareidi families that are active in the shul and that attend the shul on a regular basis.  As I recall from the time that I spent there over Shavuot, there are quite a few English speaking families that are members of the shul."

ORT Braude College – Galil Neighborhood:

The ORT Braude College is close to the western entrance of the city.  It sits within the borders of the Galil neighborhood. The College synagogue serves the public as well as the student population.  An additional synagogue, community center and the Makeef Kramin High School are nearby. The residential part of the neighborhood has a senior citizen’s home, a senior citizen’s day center, a small commercial area, the Kalanit elementary school, a third synagogue and two kindergartens  and one of Karmiel’s antiquities sites.  The neighborhood has a large park (Park HaGalil) and very varied housing from party wall duplexes to several relatively new, modern apartment houses, some of which front on the Midrahov commercial street. These flats generally rent for prices similar to the ones in Rabin. The offices of the Municipality are at the top of this street (KKL Blvd), but are technically part of the Hadar neighborhood.  Because of the proximity to the College and the number of students seeking housing, demand often exceeds supply here.

Sagi Neighborhood:

If you have the energy, it is possible to walk up the steps from the Municipality to the Sagi neighborhood.  The upper part of this neighborhood is home primarily to duplex and triplex apartments, many with large balconies and views of the parks below.  The Megadim High School (which has an English Department run by a fantastic American English teacher who has developed a special class for kids from English speaking backgrounds), an elementary school, an active community center, a sports hall, a synagogue and a kindergarten are located here. I am told there is a Chabad minyan near Beit Sefer (school) Megadim.

Te’ene Neighborhood:

Abutting Sagi is the Te’ene Neighborhood, separated by green space.  Te’ene, which is transversed by several long streets, is bounded on one side by Sderot Nesiei Israel and on another by Keren Ha’Yesod Street.  A large area, made up of several housing styles, from duplex party wall homes to the older 3-4 storey walkups, contains 6 kindergartens, a community center, a synagogue, a religious affairs office, and a mikveh. Te'ene also has several apartment buildings called "cochavim" (stars).  These interesting buildings are also found on HaDekel Street (Sagi neighborhood).  They are built roughly in the shape of a Y, so that each of the 3 apartments on a floor has a large merpeset (balcony).  No elevators, large rooms. The area is within walking distance of the old center of Karmiel and all its services.

Megadim:

The Megadim neighborhood, built on a series of hills, is generally referred to as the ‘ma’aravit.’  Relatively large in area, it is low density housing designed primarily, not exclusively, to single family homes (‘villot’).  Over the years, many of the homeowners have added ‘granny flats’ for extra income, so it is possible to find a rental for a single person here, but public transportation to this area is poor, so be prepared to walk up a lot of hills, buy a car or take taxis.  The homes, themselves, occasionally come up for rent as well.  There are 5 kindergartens, including one for kids from religious families, a supermarket, a synagogue, a mikveh, a postal substation, a small commercial center and an elementary school.  That area of the Megadim neighborhood which is not comprised of single family homes fronts, primarily, on Keren Ha’Yesod Street and includes the usual older 3-4 storey buildings.   It is possible to walk down the hill from this neighborhood into the old city center, but most people don’t walk to go back up on foot—especially pushing a stroller! Single family homes generally start around nis 4000 -4500 up.

I saw an apartment (granny flat) (May, 2010)  in this neighborhood for nis 2000. The owner of the property, a single family home, has taken the first floor of a large house and is living there with his family.  He has split the second floor into 2 flats.  The 2 apartments share a very nice balcony.  The rent includes municipal taxes, water and sewage, so the price is a good one for the neighborhood.  The house is within walking distance to the office of an English speaking family physician.  In order to create the apartment, the landlord has had to build a toilet/shower room, which is incorporated in the flat near the entrance.  It’s kinda awkward and not particularly aesthetic, but serves its purpose.  The rest of the flat comprises 3 room, i.e., 2 bedrooms and a fairly good sized combo living room/dining area with a kitchen built against the wall at one end of the room.  It would be suitable for one or even two persons, if you could get over the rather unusual arrangement.

Hadar:

Because the Municipality and the new Family Park (Park Mishpacha) take up so much space, this neighborhood is comparatively low density. There are some single family homes and duplexes in the newer part of the neighborhood (close to the Midrahov – see Iriasim Neighborhood). The B’nei Akiva Clubhouse (moadon) is located in Hadar, as are 3 kindergartens and an antiquities site.  The grounds surrounding the Municipality are a popular site for Shabbat walks.  An older section of Hadar, close to Sderot Nesiei Israel, contains several apartment houses similar to those described elsewhere.  The older part of the Hadar ends at Arbel Street.  Apartments in this overlook a large park (Park Ofir)  and playground that fronts on the boulevard.  4 room apartments in this area can be found for half of the cost of the newer neighborhoods.  The HaDekel School, which has an ulpan, for olim kids, is located in the older part of this area. Flats (2-3 bedrooms) are available about nis 2800-3000/month.

Across Sderot Nesiei Israel are the "tesha komot" (9 storey buildings).  These are the only 9 storey buildings in Karmiel and have elevators.  Most of the population is stable (elderly, Russian), so it's hard to get an apartment in one of these well-located, old-fashioned buildings.  Most of them are 3 br flats.  A brand new playground has been constructed here, and several small shops are in the plaza behind these buildings.  There are at least 3 synagogues, including Moriah,  within comfortable walking distance of these buildings and all the services of the old center.

Re: Renting / Buying - Real Estate agents, etc.

Re: Renting / Buying - Real Estate agents, etc. In general, renting in Israel is very different from renting in the US. The housing market here has never been set up for rentals in any organized way, so you won't find rental complexes here or rental offices where you drop off your monthly check and report a leaky faucet. Nearly all rentals are private. Sometimes the owner will use a commercial agent, but since this costs him a month's rent as a fee, many do it on their own. Some put ads in the local paper; some list on the internet (mostly Hebrew websites—www.yad2.co.il); some rent by word of mouth; some post ads at the bus stops and some put signs in the windows of the property. From what I have been told recently by 2 friends, one who was looking for a place and one who was looking for a tenant, properties were snapped up within 24 hrs of hitting the market. My friend who was looking for a tenant placed a sign in her window one night and the house was rented out by 08:30 the next a.m.

NOTE: THE RENTAL MARKET IN KARMIEL IS EXREMELY VOLATILE.  PRICES ARE MUCH HIGHER THAN THEY WERE WHEN I FIRST PUT THIS DOCUMENT TOGETHER IN THE SUMMER OF 2009.  TO FIND AN APARTMENT FOR LESS THAN NIS 2000 PLUS IS EXTREMELY DIFFICULT. 

 The following is thanks to Sharona Standhill, NBN

  Rentals, summer 2012

Older neighborhoods (Dromit, Center, Eshkolot, Maaravit)	Newer neighborhoods (Rabin, Makosh )
2000-2300 NIS	2500 – 2800 NIS	3 rooms
2200-2500 NIS	2800-3200 (if includes garden will be 3200-3500)	4 rooms
Maaravit – 2000-2300	In Makosh – 2000-2300	“Granny apartments”
Purchase
400,000 – 430,000 NIS	600,000 NIS and up	3 rooms
500,000 -520,000 NIS	750,000 NIS and up	4 rooms	Gardens, balconies etc add to the price
1,200,000 NIS and up	1,500,000 NIS and up	Duplex homes (5 rooms)
1,800,000 NIS and up	1,800,000 NIS and up	Private homes (5 rooms and up)

 

Take care,

Trying to rent in advance of arrival is, IMHO, virtually useless. You really gotta be here. And short term rentals are particularly difficult to find. Someone asked: "Would you kindly add to the below estimated budget of 1500 - 3000 NIS for a 3 bedroom apartment, an estimated range for all inclusive rental costs: rent, electricity, non electrical utilities, apartment house fees, telephone, internet, deposits, security system? items I have neglected to list?

The yad2.co.il website is very helpful for real estate searches.  If you cannot read Hebrew very well, try downloading Google Chrome, which contains an automatic translation option.  True, it does make a pretty bad mashup of street names in translation, but you might be able at least to get an idea of costs in the neighborhood you find interesting.  Of course, if you can navigate in Hebrew, the website can be invaluable for information gathering purposes.

Are apartments furnished?  unfurnished? "Are a stove and refrigerator included in unfurnished apartments?" Not usually.

============

As I think has been mentioned before, quoted rental prices here include only the cost of the house/apartment.  In addition to the quoted price, the tenant is expected to pay 'arnona' or municipal tax (based on square meterage and neighborhood) and all utilities, including water and sewage.  The arnona on the 87 meter place I live in is nis 3245 for 2009 without water & sewage (including sr. citizen discount of 30%). Bills are sent out bi-monthly. There are significant discounts for new Karmiel olim.

My two month electric bill for April-May 2009 came to about nis 800. The December-January 2011 bill (heavy use for heating) was nis 941. This is for one (working) person in a 4 room party-wall house, some use of air conditioning during that time. I'm pretty profligate with my heating & cooling, so I generally get two enormous electric bills a year, the rest of the time the bi-monthly bills run around 700 nis. If you have a family, do lots of cooking and laundry, etc., can't stand the cold or the heat, your bills will be higher. My gas bill is negligible. I have gas cylinders outside the house. Newer or multi-story buildings also have gas cylinders outside, but the individual flat usage is metered.   My water/sewage bill for May-June 2010 came to less than nis 70.  Since the imposition of new water rates designed to discourage wastage, rates have gone very high and are predicated on the number of persons living at one address. 

The tenant may be asked to provide the Israeli equivalent of a security deposit which is usually in the form of a post-dated check at an agreed upon amount and which is made official by the purchase of certain tax stamps which are bought at the post office.  Your real estate agent or lawyer will explain this.  DO NOT ATTEMPT A RENTAL WITHOUT A LOCAL LAWYER OR AN AGENT YOU ARE SURE YOU CAN TRUST.  If you need a referral, let me know off line.  Lawyers here work for both parties and most rental contracts are standard but, like all contracts, can be modified if both parties agree.

If you do find a suitable place and have worked out all the legal kinks, be sure to take photographs of the interior and exterior of the property to document the condition of the place before taking possession.  A videotaped tour of the flat is best.  It's best to do this in the company of the landlord or rental agent.

Occasionally, a landlord will allow the tenant to pay the utility bills and keep them in his (the landlord's) name.  As a landlord, I do not.  I accompany my tenant to the electric company, gas company and to the local tax office and have all utilities transferred to the name and bank account of the tenant.  (I've had a pretty nasty experience with a deadbeat tenant.) This can be problematic  for the tenant as well.  For example, if your landlord defaults on his telephone bill at his new address, the phone company has the right to turn off all phones listed under his name. If you are renting an apartment and paying the phone bill under the name of someone who is in arrears elsewhere, you could find yourself without service. An additional cost is 'va'ad beit,' or the Israeli equivalent to condominium fees. A multi-storey building with an elevator is going to charge more per month for fees than a 3 story walk-up. Not every multi-tenant building has a va'ad beit, but most do.

Security systems? I have decorative utilitarian iron gates or grates on all doors and windows.  I recently installed a professional security system, mostly because I travel for 2-3 months each year.  The best security system in the world is a good neighbor.

Once in a while a flat is rented furnished or partly furnished, but this is not the usual, and in such cases, generally the landlord will want the apartment back at the end of the year's lease.  The American norm of providing a stove and refrigerator is not the norm here, although it does happen.  Indeed, when I made aliyah, the tenant often also supplied his own light fixtures and his own telephone line.  Today the lines are in place, but, of course, if you want a land line, you have to go to the phone company and set one up.  The landlord may find it convenient to maintain a cable connection (you can't receive TV here without cable or satellite--an antenna won't do it. OTOH, I am not up to date with streaming videos, etc.) and add the cost to the rental.   Do not assume your apt. will be air conditioned or heated.  If an AC is in place, make sure it works before you sign anything.

Note:  All rentals are plus utilities and arnona (municipal residency taxes), as usual.  When 'rooms' are quoted, the reference is to bedrooms plus salon (living room). Dining areas, kitchen, etc. are not counted, thus, a 3.5 room apartment has 2.5 bedrooms and a living room.  A room has to have walls and a door to be counted.

If you can navigate a Hebrew site though, you might want to try www.yad2.co.il.  A lot of people try to go around the agents, to save costs, and they will post to this site. Reminder: Rentals move like lightning. You may face a situation of renting an apartment you have never seen for yourself.

Yesterday I had a conversation with a friend about renting a place in Karmiel.  "An American oleh went to see a flat that was immediately available and liked it," I told her.  "The prospective landlord said 'great--let's go sign a contract at the lawyer's office.'  Unaccustomed to moving that fast and loath to sign a lease on the first apartment he had seen, the oleh said, "Can I have 24 hrs?" and offered a nis 500 deposit for good faith.  "Sure," replied the landlord.  First thing the next morning the new oleh called the landlord to say he'd take the apartment.  "Sorry, it's gone," said the owner.  "But I gave you a deposit of nis 500 and you promised to hold it for me for 24 hrs," said the oleh.  "And I will give you back your money," said the landlord...

How do I explain to a new oleh," I asked, 'that this is not an unusual experience here and has nothing to do with dishonor, disrespect or dishonesty.  The landlord took the money in good faith and was willing to return it, but someone else came along and was ready to sign.  Why should he wait for the eventual return of someone he doesn't know and lose a bird in the hand?  Or that the seller of a property has been offered a higher price that the one you had agreed to, so he has decided to sell the house to the higher bidder?

This is what is known as a 'lama-cacha' kind of question. Lama--why?  Cacha--thusly or because, .and describes a significant difference in cultural perceptions and values. 

Anyhow, after a number of years and similar experiences, I have developed a much thicker skin and a few guidelines for life in Israel.

About Karmiel Schools

Sylvia's Karmiel

About Karmiel schools--Thanks to Shoshie

Re: Living in Karmiel

Posted by: "shoshiek" shoshana.kadish@gmail.com shoshiek

Date: Thu Oct 8, 2009 2:28 pm ((PDT))

I'll try to reply to some of your questions here and feel free to contact me via email for more details. (Your son is also welcome to contact my son - i have a 10yr old 5th grader and i can send you his email address - he reads english fine and can write as well, albeit with spelling mistakes)

1) Karmiel is probably a little more pricey than Ma'alot though I'm not sure the difference is significant - it also is a matter of neighborhood and whether you are looking for a house vs apartment, etc.

- Karmiel does not have any all religious or even 'mostly religious' neighborhoods but instead is more mixed whereas Ma'alot has at least one neighborhood that is majority religious (if not almost all religious).

2) Karmiel has a few Ashkenazi orthodox shuls around town - in rabin there is at least one, there is one down near the old center, there is habad up on the top of the hill right between ma'aravit and dromit neighborhoods, the hesder yeshiva minyan behind the iriya, and a black hat shul in the dromit. So there are options though the vast majority of shuls are 'eidot hamizrach'. (We've just adapted after 12+ years in karmiel and rarely if ever daven ashkenaz by now).

3) Karmiel has one mamlachti dati elementary school - boys and girls on the same campus, separate sex classes. (From what I know, Ma'alot has separate schools for mamlachti date - one boys, one girls). There is also a chardi school with separate classes.

- Our kids are in the mamlachti dati school and like it. Classes are generally fairly small by israeli standards though I understand this year 1st grade classes are large (30 or a bit over).

- My son is in 5th grade and has 20 boys in his class now as they broke off a small 3rd class for 5-6th grade for kids needing some additional academic help. His class overall seems to have nice boys and its a mix of kids from religious, traditional and a few from non-religious homes.

- My son is the only english speaker in the class - you will find in both karmiel and Ma'alot, there will be only a handful of english speaking kids in the schools as the communities are not dominated by english speaking immigrants. If you are needing a large english speaking group within the classroom, that will be found more in traditionally popular spots in the center of the country and near Jerusalem. The schools do try to offer some assistance to acclimate but it definitely is a learning curve for kids and they tend to catch on within a year or so to most things but there are definitely cultural differences between the US modern orthodox schools and Israeli schools up here. (I cannot comment on the academics as my kids have only gone to school here)

4)Karmiel has a wonderful music conservatory (not sure if your son is interested in visual, dance or musical arts) which both my kids study at - my 5th grader is a talented trombonist and already plays in the HS band there.

- there are many many dance classes and troupes in Karmiel for the dance oriented

- I believe there are a number of art classes through the community centers as well as some private classes. I know we looked into some but my 10yr old (who is my artist) simply doesn't have time after music and his biking club.

- there are many afterschool activities of all sorts in town from swimming, karate, other sports through science and computers, etc

5) Regarding english teaching - I think for the regular schools, you need to get certified by misrad ha-hinukh, which should be relatively easy if you have ESL certification in the US but nefesh b'nefesh would know more about those details.

- There is a michlala (technical college) - Ort Braude (http://www.braude.ac.il/) in Karmiel which might look to hire english teachers as all the students there are required to reach a fairly high level of english proficiency and most study at least a year or two of english as a result.

==end of quoted text from Shosie==


More:

SCHOOL STUFF ABOUT WHICH I KNOW NOTHING.  

Gleaned from the archives of gonorthkarmiel@yahoo.com

> My daughter is set to go to Beit Sefer Moriah next year - and there are so
many things I don't know.  I thought it would be better to ask these things on
the list, rather than private emails, so that others can see what the schools
are like.
>
> 1) Uniform: What colors do I need to get for the shirts - do we have to call
the school?  Does this change each year?

The schools all send out a 'preparation' letter some time during the summer
since each one has their own rules (or none) regarding their school uniforms.
- All elementary and middle/high schools in the city have mandatory use of
school shirts as do many schools in the nearby area. Some schools require
specific colors only
- Moriah has the following approved colors (other schools vary):
- White (required for Fridays, Rosh Hodesh and other special days)
- Bordeaux (maroon)
- Orange (Added only this past year)
- Green (added this past year, no specific shade was specified from
what my kids say but bright and dark green are what I've seen)
- Blue & Techelet (typically the blue was navy and techelet was
light blue but basically any sort of blue goes)

Where do you buy school shirts? - There are a number of shops in town which sell solid color shirts for this purpose and will apply the appropriate school logo
on the tee-shirt/long sleeve shirt/sweatshirt for you as part of the standard
purchase cost. If you've got multiple and you plan to hand down the shirts,
consider trying to get the slightly better quality ones - if you know you won't
get re-use, don't bother as they'll all last the year
The following are 4 shops I know of (probably there are more
- Nyrlon outlet in the Azor haTa'asiyah which is slightly more expensive
than some of the others (but not all) and has good quality and large selection
- Bottom floor of the old mall (can't recall the name) which sells cheap
clothing and has, at least in the past, sold school shirts - not sure if they
still do (as I bought there only 3 years ago when it was different location on
same bottom floor). Slightly cheaper prices/quality.
- Clothing shop in ma'aravit in that long strip mall area under the
apartments. Nice people, decent quality (though can vary depending on brand but we had problems with the small size shark brand sweatshirts having too small neck holes, but good quality material). They don't always have a large variety of options in the small sizes if you've got tiny kids to worry about - they are better with middle/larger sizes
- 'Hulzot Karmiel' in the Azor haTa'asiyah - no idea of quality but they are
definitely more expensive than all the others from what I've been told.

How many to buy?
- your mileage varies on how often you do laundry but be prepared for back to
back white shirt days coming up so I'd recommend at least 2 whites and 3
colored shirts (I tend to get 5 colored shirts so I can go a week if I need
to)

What to buy?
- Short sleeve or 3/4 sleeve (if your preference) for the hot months. Moriah
requires (or just prefers?) non-cap sleeves for the girls but 3/4 isn't
mandatory
- Sweatshirts (with or without hoods) for the winter
- My kids like to have a zip up jacket or two that they can put on/off during
those in between times (or when the AC is too cold for them in class)
- Optionally long sleeve t-shirts for in between weather but I've never bothered
(worst case, I have my kid put a short sleeve shirt over a very light long
sleeve shirt if its too hot for sweatshirt, too cold for t-shirt)

> 2) Lunch box - are the white the-sectioned trays not cool for first grade?
Are "Bratz" themed school bags and lunch boxes the norm or banned.  Do we have to provide lunch or snack?

Schools in the city are big on promoting recycling so the section trays and
Tupperware type things are just fine (my kids use them). No need for themed
lunch boxes.
- You will need to provide aruchat eser (10 o'clock meal) every day plus a 2nd
snack for the longer days. (There was a hot lunch program for the 13:00 break
when there was school till 15:00 but that isn't active this year though it was
optionally available the 2 years before - Pack for 10'oclock snack the same things you'd sent to gan (kindergarten) that your kids will eat. Teachers all remind you they don't like junk food (though some parents send it)
- For the later snack, my kids say they don't have time to wash for sandwiches
so they usually take fruit, dry cereal in a bag, etc.

Schoolbags - just buy the typical offerings in he store. The younger kids all
seem to go with the 'character' or 'picture' type big bags with 3 or 4 sections.
- Not sure if I've seen Bratz at Moriah but I can ask my boys (they probably
notice more than I) but plenty of other image stuff yes
- I've typically searched around to try to find the bag on the 'sale rack' that
basically is the one version (same types, images) that a store is dropping the
price on and save the 50NIS for the 'cheaper' option.
- The bag you buy for kita-aleph will likely stay with your kid through 2nd
grade and often 3rd or more
My 4th grader (who I got a new bag for this year after 3 years with
his worn Spiderman bag) said this year basically all his classmates 'upgraded'
to slightly smaller big kid bags but still orthopedic backed but without
characters (majorly uncool now!)

You'll get a list of the school supplies needed but the stores can all give the
general advice too. Stock up with plenty of extras of
- Pencils (non-mechanical )
- Little erasers
- Crayons
- Scissors (they get lost)
- Glue (stick glue mostly)
- for 1st grade you'll need the 10 line notebooks (vs. 14) - buy the super cheap
brown paper backed versions in general as the kids make covers for them anyway
in 1st grade
- Get one 3 pocket pencil case to put all the junk in
- Package of plastic notebook covers (the store will show you)
- One plastic folder for art class plus 'tzvei panda (oil crayons - store knows)
and the pads of white paper they use for art class
- anything else will come on the lists from the school/teacher - I can't recall
what else
- do NOT buy a 'yoman' (date/appointment book) if your kids are going to Moriah as the school supplies them to all the kids themselves. (I don't think this is standard at other city schools)

In Karmiel you don't need to buy schoolbooks for any of the primary schools in
stores. The schools purchase in bulk (city wide even) and you'll get them from
the school as part of your standard parent fee
- Karmiel is rare in that all the schools charge less than the national allowed
fee and for us it includes all books! Most places make parents book shop
separately on top of the fee
- The older kids will have books they return at the end of the year (the ones
they don't write in) but for first grade, basically everything is workbooks.
- The re-usable books are not 'new' when the kids get them but who cares. Last
time I checked, the sefer bamidbar my son has that must be at least 10 years old
is no different than a new one :)

 > 3) Anything that happens at Gan, that is too "uncool" for first grade?  I'm an
Olah and don't want to embarrass my girl - that's happened enough at gan. :S
No real ideas here as I'm the embarrassing olah mommy too but mostly just let
the kids go with the flow. They'll tell you what they need or want.....
- For Moriah, most kids take the bus (you'll get info on that too but don't use
it the first day or two) but many will get dropped off by a parent. A very few
first graders have parents who walk them to the classroom (as do special
occasions for all kids) but in general that's not too cool at least not after
the first couple of weeks of school :)